Sunday, July 09, 2006
Gene M. Bridges Too Fails to Differentiate Between Pre-Sin Adam and Men
It seems that Mr. Bridges has added to Alan's failure to differentiate between a pre-sin Adam and men. It is this failure that placed Alan Kurschner into the realm of being a hyper-Calvinist. Gene writes:
"God’s decree includes ends and means. The means by which evil is “caused” is His permission, which is just as effacious as His activity, but the means is passive. That is, God’s decree renders an event certain, but He sometimes, through inaction permits something to occur. God’s decree is the necessary condition, His decreed means (His permission) is the sufficient condition. In permission, men are left, for all intents and purposes on their own. I find it highly ironic, and downright irrational, that Mr. Mart would then render this objection, since men are given the permission by God to do as they want to do in this scheme. Isn’t the “volitional theology” goal for men to be allowed to do what they want and for God to honor their free will decision."
Notice here the absense of dealing with a pre-sin Adam. Gene only refers to sinful men born after Adam's fall. The question that Ala has had trouble dealing with is where did pre-sin Adam get his desire to sin. Alan states that God decreed it and caused it to happen by removing His hand of grace from Adam. This removal of grace on Adam goes beyond what traditional Calvinism teaches. As stated in earlier posts, most Calvinists will either proclaim mystery or free choice because to go beyond this libels God. This is where Alan has parted company with his Calvinistic brethren.
Again Gene writes:
"I’d add that libertarian action theory (Arminianism) doesn’t get Mr. Mart off the hook. Arminians have God decreeing the fall as well. Here is the infralapsarian order of decrees in Calvinism: Creation, Fall, Election/Reprobation, Atonement, Application of Atonement; Notice the fall is decreed. Here is the Arminian order (which every Arminian should be reminded of from time to time): Creation, Fall, Atonement, General Call, Election of all who believe. Notice that Arminianism has God decreeing the Fall as well. Only the Open Theist is in a position to deny this."
But what Gene fails to understand is that God elects and decrees in accord with His foreknowledge. God does not choose apart from His foreknowledge. Again, according Edwards' view of the will, men must act according to their strongest desire based on the condition of their wills. In this view, the unregenerate man cannot do what is pleasing to God. He can only sin based on his will. But Adam was declared a good creature by God and his nature was without sin. The desire of sinning against God would have been impossible according to this view of the will. Where did Adam get his desire to sin? From God? No! Does Gene believe God gave Adam the desire to sin too?
It seems that Mr. Bridges has added to Alan's failure to differentiate between a pre-sin Adam and men. It is this failure that placed Alan Kurschner into the realm of being a hyper-Calvinist. Gene writes:
"God’s decree includes ends and means. The means by which evil is “caused” is His permission, which is just as effacious as His activity, but the means is passive. That is, God’s decree renders an event certain, but He sometimes, through inaction permits something to occur. God’s decree is the necessary condition, His decreed means (His permission) is the sufficient condition. In permission, men are left, for all intents and purposes on their own. I find it highly ironic, and downright irrational, that Mr. Mart would then render this objection, since men are given the permission by God to do as they want to do in this scheme. Isn’t the “volitional theology” goal for men to be allowed to do what they want and for God to honor their free will decision."
Notice here the absense of dealing with a pre-sin Adam. Gene only refers to sinful men born after Adam's fall. The question that Ala has had trouble dealing with is where did pre-sin Adam get his desire to sin. Alan states that God decreed it and caused it to happen by removing His hand of grace from Adam. This removal of grace on Adam goes beyond what traditional Calvinism teaches. As stated in earlier posts, most Calvinists will either proclaim mystery or free choice because to go beyond this libels God. This is where Alan has parted company with his Calvinistic brethren.
Again Gene writes:
"I’d add that libertarian action theory (Arminianism) doesn’t get Mr. Mart off the hook. Arminians have God decreeing the fall as well. Here is the infralapsarian order of decrees in Calvinism: Creation, Fall, Election/Reprobation, Atonement, Application of Atonement; Notice the fall is decreed. Here is the Arminian order (which every Arminian should be reminded of from time to time): Creation, Fall, Atonement, General Call, Election of all who believe. Notice that Arminianism has God decreeing the Fall as well. Only the Open Theist is in a position to deny this."
But what Gene fails to understand is that God elects and decrees in accord with His foreknowledge. God does not choose apart from His foreknowledge. Again, according Edwards' view of the will, men must act according to their strongest desire based on the condition of their wills. In this view, the unregenerate man cannot do what is pleasing to God. He can only sin based on his will. But Adam was declared a good creature by God and his nature was without sin. The desire of sinning against God would have been impossible according to this view of the will. Where did Adam get his desire to sin? From God? No! Does Gene believe God gave Adam the desire to sin too?
